Testimony of Richard, Kedge alumnus expatriate in Hong Kong

Hello Richard. Let’s start with your telling us about your education. What did you study, both before and at KEDGE?

After my bac, I got my Bachelor’s at Rouen Business School.  It’s really very general; you mainly study management, finance, math, or even law.  It isn’t until the third year that you specialize. I then opted for the management path.  Just before started my specialization I did a 6 month Erasmus exchange in Poland.  That’s what led to my wanting to move abroad. At the beginning, I had never imagined leaving [France]. It was only after having travelled for six months, sharing an apartment, and discovering different cultures that I told myself that there were lots of opportunities abroad.

So, after I got my Bachelor’s, it clearly became a must, and I told myself I wanted to focus on an international and financial career, more particularly market finance.

After that, I passed KEDGE’s competitive entrance exam. I was on the Bordeaux campus. In my first year, I studied almost nothing other than finance, mostly market finance. After my first year, I chose to take a gap year so I could do a maximum of internships.  I had two internships of six months each.

My first internship was with HBSC, where I worked 6 months on regulatory compliance. That means we tried to lower the exposure of the bank, mainly by reviewing all the operations performed, then reducing them to have a minimum number of assets on the market.  In practice, it gave us limits and objectives so that we took fewer and fewer risks, and our role was to ensure that we were right where we were supposed to be each time. It was the first time that I began to work in market finance professionally.

After that, I spent six months with Société Générale. I found this internship through contacts I had made at HBSC, which shows the importance of having a network. This position dealt with the commodities markets,  mainly raw materials and risks and credits.  Simply put, we had to ensure that they were well paid, review debts, etc. I also worked on regulation, asking the clients questions, such as their address and employment history, and then I sent this to the legal department and let them take care of the investigative work. For example, to ensure that the client had never financed terrorism, or polluted places in the world.  That work was more expansive, and I liked it very much, but I couldn’t see myself doing that forever. A potential sales position became available, but personally, I did not see myself doing that.

After these experiences, I told myself that I did not really want to go back to the campus full-time, so I opted for a work-study program.  I had some difficulty in finding a company to take me on, mainly because the cycle was often a problem (1 month of classes, 1 month at the company).  HBSC contacted me and offered me a position that had just come open.  So I returned to HBSC in a different position doing trade and deal control. Specifically, the front office (the sales traders), would do the business, then it would go back into the system.  We had to reconcile all operations and verify that there were no errors. If the client bought for 1 million, we had make sure that it was not bought for 1.5 or 2 million, that the rates were good, the maturities were good, etc.  We also did a lot of reporting. Once again it was regulatory, meaning that we had to ensure that we respected all market regulations. I did this for one year while taking classes in Bordeaux at the same time.

While I was still at HSBC, someone told me about a Volunteering for International Experience (VIE) opportunity, in either New York or in Hong Kong.  I immediately said that I was interested, and that I preferred Hong Kong.  I ended my contract, and a few days later I left for Hong Kong.  It all went very quickly.  Since my boss had spoken with those in Hong Kong, I just had a short interview (30 minutes), mostly to discuss other things.  All the rest happened pretty naturally. I arrived in Hong Kong in October 2016, a year and a half ago.

Could you tell us about your decision to move to Hong Kong?

The notion of going abroad, like I said earlier, came to me at the end of my Bachelor’s. I really wanted to leave, to do something somewhere other than in France. By the end of my work-study program, I had done around 2 years non-stop in Paris. I told myself that I didn’t want to live like that for the next 10 years, so I had to leave right away, because if I didn’t, I would never leave.

I was fortunate to be in a big company that could easily send me abroad, because I didn’t know if I would find another chance to find a VIE contract as an external candidate.  I knew that there was a big demand for VIE placements, and very few offers, so it’s more difficult if you don’t have internal opportunities. I am not saying that it is impossible, I knew people who had done it, but you usually need to already have a lot experience.  I told myself that if you want it, you mustn’t ask yourself to many questions. Worst case scenario, if at the end of six months you say to yourself, “What have I done?  I don’t like anything, I don’t like the city”, you can easily leave.  So, I wasn’t afraid of failing. If I didn’t like it, I knew that I could end the VIE at the end of a year.  When someone leaves on a VIE, there is are number of safeguards. You have a certain number of advantages as a French person, you’re paid in euros so there is no need to open a foreign bank account, etc. It’s like a long internship where you’re well paid, so from my point of view, if you’ve got the chance, there’s no reason to not do it.

Initially, I left to do what I did in Paris in Hong Kong. Back then, it was something that no one did here, but was very prominent in Paris and London.  In terms of regulators, Hong Kong is a little behind.  I mean, that all the things we enforce in Europe aren’t enforced here. But that will come. HBSC wanted to be a little ahead and export to Hong Kong the things we do in Paris.  For me, the primary purpose was to bring the “know-how” that they didn’t have yet, to train people, etc.  I did that for the first three or four months.

When I left for Hong Kong, I had asked to do other things because I knew that in the team there were assistant traders who actually worked with the traders, with the sales, and what we call support trading, and I was more interested in that.  So my VIE was divided like this:  the first three to four months when I trained people, I set up the process while developing it some,  and afterwards I became an assistant trader.  I have been doing that for more than a year, the team has been growing ever since, and we are constantly asked to do new tasks on completely different subjects. So, I am constantly learning about new subjects, which is a big plus. In addition, I am in a team that is growing, with many other French people, which is great, because at least we never feel too far from home. I’m sure that’s why I adapted so easily.

Photo taken at a KEDGE Alumni afterwork in Hong Kong

What differences do you see in the working culture between Hong Kong and France?

There are three main differences.  The first is that things here are very segmented.  You don’t step out of line very often, the work is very procedural, you must do such-or-such task in a certain manner and no other way, you don’t reflect too much on yourself, you do everything a little like a machine.  That was a little frustrating in the beginning because it is not at all like that in Paris.  It’s often the opposite.  You do what you think is best, and the result counts more than the way you did it. Here it’s literally the opposite. Very clear procedures are put in place. You have 10 pages of procedures and you have to follow them to the letter.

The second is the way you interact with people: a little less direct, much less aggressive.  You have to be very gentle in your emails.  Even if something really irritates you, you have to be careful, because if you aren’t, it will quickly get back to your managers.

Finally, the third thing, which is a huge positive, is that in hierarchical terms you can easily speak to your managers; there is truly no barrier.  At HBSC in Hong Kong, your manager might sit next to you, your N+1 and N+2 are at the same desk as you.  You regularly see and talk to your N+3, and if you have a problem, you can meet with them. Even if they ultra-busy, they will find time for you.  They will take some time to speak to you.  What’s more, you also see the top management regularly.  There are meetings three or four times a year where everyone is present.  You can raise your hands and ask questions.  These are people highly placed in Hong Kong, even internationally. I never saw that during my more than a year in Paris.  I never saw or spoke to my N+3.  It’d seem very bizarre if someone did speak to their N+3.  You’d ask yourself why he/she is speaking to you and not your N+1, etc. Here, it’s not like that.  It’s even viewed as good if you go see your N+3. They will listen to you and not push you away.

When you have worked in France and then you come here, these are the three differences that will jump out at you pretty quickly.

What are your ambitions for the future? Or, where do you see yourself in 5 years?

In the years to come, I’d say two to three years, I’ll still be here.  Beyond that, I don’t really know.  I don’t think I'll go back to Paris, even though that is the easy solution.  With HBSC I can pretty much always return to Paris easily enough.

I left on my VIE for two years (initially one year, renewable for another year).  I was supposed to finish at the end of September, but the team got larger. After a year, my manager wanted to keep me by terminating my VIE, which is ending soon.  In two weeks from now, I’ll be entering into a local contract, so I’m planning on being here for another two years. Otherwise, it’s not worth it.

Then, if I want change, maybe I'll try to get closer to Europe: Switzerland or London. Why not?   But it’s all a question of opportunity, if there are interesting things elsewhere.  I also think of maybe working in Singapore, so I can stay in Asia.  I’m not closing any doors.  However, returning to Paris in five years from now would be a little like a personal failure.  I really hope to get more international experience, which would add value to my CV. What’s more, it is very enriching, you leave your comfort zone.  It’s good to put yourself in this type of situation until you’re thirty, you have to manage on your own everywhere  So, I can say for sure that I’ll be abroad another five years.

How did KEDGE help you achieve your projects?

The work-study program really helped make it possible to go abroad.  The ability to do an internship – to be able to leave for one or two years with a company – is invaluable.  And the gap year is great.  What you do for example (Pro-Act Nomad Kedge Asian Success) offers lots of opportunities. You can meet lots of people that you can contact later. 

You must take advantage of these two things and take the maximum amount of time to figure out what you want to do.  Even if you don’t completely know for sure (anyone can make a mistake), at 23 or 24 years old, it’s not serious.  If you have an experience for a year that you don’t like, you can bounce back elsewhere.

Another advantage at KEDGE was the ability to take courses a la carte.  If, after six months of studying finance you decide you want to do marketing, you can easily change.  That was the strongest point.  The added-value of the program is that it is flexible.  You can easily change directions from one term to another.

 
Pro-Act students with Charlotte, a KEDGE student of KEDGE on an exchange with our partner university in Guangzhou

What were your apprehensions before you left to go abroad?

I had never been to Hong Kong, so I told myself that it was maybe not a great idea to move there for two years (laughs).  I had a colleague in Hong Kong I had met in Paris, and who I knew a little bit, who is still here.  Before making my decision, I called her and talked to her about it for an hour.  She told me how it went, that she regrets nothing, the level of the position, etc. That allowed me to confirm what was possible, that there were other opportunities in place.  I also asked routine questions about what type of life she has: is it hard in terms of food, what do you miss most, housing (because it is the complicated point of Hong Kong), etc.

In the end, I’m someone who doesn’t ask too many questions. If you think too much about something, you will never stop.  I told myself “take your bag and you will find out when you are there”, and that’s what I did.  I stayed at an Airbnb the first few days, I looked for a roommate, and went from there.

I didn’t have any particular fears.  I hesitated, because Hong Kong is overpopulated – worse than Paris.  But there are advantages and inconveniences. And here, the advantages greatly outweigh the inconveniences. Even though it’s not great seeing crowds of people everywhere, it's difficult, and it's very hot, it's offset by lots of other things, and you do not really think about it anymore. You easily adapt a few days after you get here.

What advice would you give a student who is considering trying a Hong Kong adventure?

If possible, I’d counsel you to do a VIE. It’s much safer.  If you have never gone abroad and aren’t too sure of yourself, it’s your safety net.  You leave as a French person, you pay in euros, you keep your social security, etc.  It is also very easy to break the contract if ever you don’t like expatriation, or the company.  It’s the type of contract that is good when you move to work abroad for the first time. 

Then, don’t ask yourself too many questions.  If you are single, if you are a little “detached” from your family.  You must not ask too many questions and just go. Find out what you need to know when you get there.  Find people who already live there, KEDGE alumni for example.  There are French groups on Facebook who respond easily and frankly. It’s different from all that you will read. The article in Le Point that tells you how to expatriate to Hong Kong is a bit banal.  It’s better to ask people who are there, and the best is to go there.  It’s really different than Europe.

What have you found in Hong Kong that you would never have found in France?

Cheap plane tickets (laughs).  Seriously, it’s a country with food from all over the world.  You can eat dishes from all parts of the world in Hong Kong: French, Japanese, Chinese - all types of cuisines are here. It’s the Asian hub where you can find everything, and you don’t feel so out of place.  It’s super multicultural, something you don’t necessarily find in France.

Interview conducted in Hong Kong by the Kedge Asian Success, team, composed of Romane Clerc, Cyril Colliot, and Maud Ribaucourt

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